Peroxide asked some great questions in response to my post ‘Sometimes, angels sing where I talk about the incredible vulnerability that I seek from my submissive:
We’ve all got walls (some of us more than others) that we put between ourselves and everybody else. How do you know that a sub is capable willing and eager to drop them?
And let’s just say hypothetically that there was a young man, who really wanted to be able to become open and vulnerable, within a relationship where he felt (was sure he was) safe.
How could he display that willingness, without dropping his guard for every potential domme who came along?
I LOVE these questions, love them! They make me turn over the possible answers and try to put them in an orderly line. Thank you.
Firstly, even though it’s obvious, I would note that someone might be very capable, willing and eager to be that open, but there has to be something about *me* that brings it out. Finding that kind of fit is rare.
I am not an airy fairy person, you know? I don’t do the new agey thing with energy and auras, don’t have a ‘Magick Happens’ sticker or think BDSM is somehow a mystical expression of spirituality… so talking about this stuff is somewhat difficult for me because some of it *is* kind of airy fairy.
I find my submissives online, so initial communication is normally email, and there is a thing that happens that makes me go ‘oh’. The revelation that he is capable, willing and eager to open himself up to the level of vulnerability that I want is slow, it’s not like some flash of lightning out of the blue and it’s certainly not something that he offers up to me on a plate at the beginning.
How it works for me is that there is something that happens between us as we get to know each other where I inadvertently hit his buttons as our communication progresses, and I can *feel* it opening him up. I might say something in passing and I will see his reaction, even from a distance. If he is capable of going there with me, he will start to feel it naturally, parts of him being touched gently and opened, and if the connection is there, *I* will feel it, this slight shift in what is going on between us. If he is willing, he will share it and shyly tell me how something we are talking about is impacting him. If he is eager, he will tentatively and quietly start to explore with me how he can get more. If he is smart (and he needs to be), he will read my reactions and feed them, and we hit this kind of cyclical ‘action and reaction’ loop that is subtle and incredibly loud.
I would add that none of this is explicitly sexual, it doesn’t work that way for me. I deliberately don’t go there, I am not interested in that kind of exchange when I am getting to know someone. If I can get what I want from him, and the connection is there, the sexual side will be amazing. If he is primarily interested in the sexual side, thinks that it comes first, I know we are not a match. It is funny I say that because for me, if it’s not sexy and fun and hot and intimate, I’m not interested. But all of that doesn’t work unless it’s in the right context, so what I am looking for in this stage is to see if he can give me what I need to inspire my hunger.
How does he display this to me? He has to be authentically himself, and brave enough to honestly communicate how things make him feel. There are no tricks, it should not be ‘work’, it should be a genuine expression of what is going on with him and if there is a connection, I will *feel* it. I know that this is scary stuff, and sharing it is partly about feeling safe enough, and partly about having the courage to overcome the natural fear of going there. It’s a slow process, but it should be fascinating and wonderful.
When I get that from him, it is incredibly exciting, it lights up everything in me, and I just… know.
20 comments
“Peroxide asked some great questions”
Hey! that's me, I ask great questions. score one for me.
I'm rather delighted to have warranted a whole post, and such an interesting one at that.
Like most good answers this post brings up more questions, but I'll try and be concise.
This bit in the “Sometimes angels Sing” post prompted my questions in the first place.
“I will poke at it and coax it or force it out and they will give it to me, devoiIf he is willing, he will share it and shyly tell me how something we are talking about is impacting him.d of ego or defences, they scrape themselves raw and offer up their insides with a lack of self consciousness that defies logic.”
It speaks to me of the kind of vulnerability I –uh, I mean my friend is reticent to experience.
However as you get into this post, it seems a good deal less intimidating. “If he is willing, he will share it and shyly tell me how something we are talking about is impacting him.”
This doesn't seem too difficult. For me, being candid and honest isn't that difficult, nor does it necessarily mean I'm dropping my guard. I have a lengthy and somewhat amusing anecdote illustrating this, but It'll rabbit trail the whole comment.
Especially in written correspondence this:“He has to be authentically himself, and brave enough to honestly communicate how things make him feel.” wouldn't be so hard.
The thing that is scary (Needles scary) and difficult, is allowing another person to have influence over how I feel in the first place.
I can talk about my feelings and whatever deeply personal subjects come up until the cows come home with strangers and recent acquaintances easily. With good friends and romantic interests however, I care about their opinion of me and their potential reaction to me “opening up” is scary enough that I am somewhat more reserved.
So, if I'm “open,” candid and honest, would that be displaying this ephemeral thing that you're seeking? Cause, I think I can do most of that from behind my walls.
You say a couple times that you “feel it” this connection you crave. Is this after meeting in person then? It seems like a lot more intuitive than I'd expect via email.
Peroxide: “The thing that is scary (Needles scary) and difficult, is allowing another person to have influence over how I feel in the first place.”
*nod* Yes, and I would venture to say that if it's right, you will not be in a position to 'allow' or 'not allow', it just is. You can choose to engage or not engage, but unless you can accept (and welcome!) the fact that you are going down the rabbit hole, then you will never get there. And yes, that initial step is definitely one of the hard parts.
But you are right, that a lot of this isn't actually hard to do in terms of the 'what', but it *is* scary because vulnerability is scary, and THAT is what makes it hard rather than anything to do with 'how I should act'.
“With good friends and romantic interests however, I care about their opinion of me and their potential reaction to me “opening up” is scary enough that I am somewhat more reserved.”
Of course, it's not scary until you feel like you have something to lose. And it's not about talking about feelings as an objective thing, it's about talking about how 'this thing', where you care, where the 'someone' is getting under your skin, the sinking, the scary things etc, it's about how THEY make you feel with this person.
“So, if I'm “open,” candid and honest, would that be displaying this ephemeral thing that you're seeking? Cause, I think I can do most of that from behind my walls.”
*laugh* No! Are you looking for loopholes?!
If you are doing it from behind your walls, then it is something different from what I am talking about. You *have* to peek out from behind the wall, the entire exchange HAS to put cracks in your wall and you HAVE to poke a finger out there and waggle it and be prepared to make that crack bigger. The rest is just talk.
“You say a couple times that you “feel it” this connection you crave. Is this after meeting in person then? It seems like a lot more intuitive than I'd expect via email.”
Nope, if it's right, I can feel it in email, in IM, on the phone before ever meeting. The written word is a medium I love and I need someone who loves it also, and if it's working, I can get a really strong and powerful level of connection with it. I can 'feel' him. Yes, I know that's airy fairy. I talk often about the 'zing zing', and that's part of it.
Ferns
It's as if you plucked this blog right out of my head because I wholeheartedly and emphatically agree with every word! I say I need to crave someone before I'll play with them but I really like that you use the phrase “inspire my hunger” because it is very much a hunger when it's the right boy.
Mistress Lilyana: “It's as if you plucked this blog right out of my head because I wholeheartedly and emphatically agree with every word!”
Heh… I so did! Those needlepoint pliars are useful for that sort of thing…
I love that you could relate!
Ferns
*nods a lot
I agree with it all, as usual!
Give me those things that you can't give or show to anyone else, that's all I ask for… it's not so much!!! There's certain moments where it's like a snare drum going in my chest… because you see it, you feel it, and you know that stretched out in front of you is tender and vulnerable… it makes my mouth water… it makes me want to take care of it! I wrap him up and keep him safe, so then he knows that I'm the only one who can do that for him as well.
Also, I met my beast online… and yes, you can feel it through any medium of communication, as long as it's there and strong enough to breach the distance. For me, it was just as intense as in person. I don't know if I expected it to be more or less, but I was surprised in it's inability to waiver.
Well done Peroxide! You give good question!
Maybe 'airy-fairy auras' is just another way of saying 'unconscious brain processes.'
In general we feel our triggers before our conscious mind is aware of them. It's not so much “Oooo, she's sadistic, I *like* her” as it is, “Oooo, I *like* her, it's probably because she's so sadistic.”
Over time we come to know what some of them are, and to be able to understand where some attractions come from, like you've identified here. Still, we can't lay out all the why's and wherefores, because we don't know them; we have to discover them one by one, just like prospective partners have to.
Hmmm.
That's very, *very* thought provoking, Miss Ferns.
All I can say for now is 'Gulp'
Sir Puppington Lothian.
You're breakin' my heart Ferns, first no secret hand signals, and now no loop holes.
Ferns: “if it's right, you will not be in a position to 'allow' or 'not allow”
You'd think that this sort of thing wouldn't be an issue for someone who's turned on by giving up control. But falling for someone is scary business,are you sure there's no loopholes?
Ferns: “the entire exchange HAS to put cracks in your wall and you HAVEto poke a finger out there and waggle it and be prepared to make that crack bigger”
Firstly all this talk of cracks and fingers sounds filthy. Secondly this
sounds like a terrific way to have my still beating heart ripped out of my chest and stomped on it till it's the consistency of something that you'd spread on toast, just based on prior observation.
I accept (grudgingly) that any relationship require this risk, and that a whole lot of trust goes into D/s type relationship. But dammit I want to skip straight to the hot stuff.
Ferns: if it's right, I can feel it in email, in IM, on the phone before ever meeting
I guess I'm surprised how much stock you put in email, as much as I like the written word, I constantly second guess how I'm going to come across in text. I'd be trying hard not to get my hopes up till I'd met in person.
Sweets : “Well done Peroxide! You give good question!”
You're gonna make me blush.
I can also relate to this! I've always collected boys (non-sexually, as friends) and it's because some of them just… work. After several interactions, I can usually tell if they are 'one of mine' or not. Some are more open to me (for various reasons), but it's this weird feeling that I can – ah, so hard to describe – carefully sink my will through their skin and claim them.
The weirdest is when a boy is one of mine and self-idents as dominant and possesses strong dominant personality traits. I have absolutely zero idea how that works, but it has happened more than once. It's this really bizarre feeling of holding their heart in my hands and wanting to treat it so featherlight gentle that I'm afraid of even speaking. I could leave scars as easy as brushing the dust from a butterfly wing and all I want is more of them. If they are one of mine, I always want more of their time, mind, and heart.
I've been 'off the market', so to speak, for about a decade, so the worst is when I find one of mine and they are without (a) desired significant other(s). I always worry I'm going to ruin him by tying him to me, of exploring the deep connection. It's super-scary simply because I don't want to DAMAGE him and I know I can't keep him for myself; I like to stick with just my one boyo. So far everything has always turned out for the best, but I am terrified that someday it won't and that it will be all my fault. :(
Sweets: “Give me those things that you can't give or show to anyone else, that's all I ask for… it's not so much!!!”
*smile* It reminds me of this brilliant song:
And I never wanted anything from you
except everything you had and what was left after that too…
I want to quote the entire rest of your comment and nod wildly… All that!! Thank you for it!
Ferns
Étienne: “Maybe 'airy-fairy auras' is just another way of saying 'unconscious brain processes.' In general we feel our triggers before our conscious mind is aware of them.”
Yes, I like this a lot! And it *is* intangible, it's really not so much different from the way sexual attraction works. I can't tell someone how to 'be' to trip those triggers, either he has 'it' or he doesn't. I actually wish it wasn't that way, it would be a lot easier if I liked the guy and could just go “…and now do a, b and c… mmmm… yummy!”.
“Over time we come to know what some of them are, and to be able to understand where some attractions come from, like you've identified here. Still, we can't lay out all the why's and wherefores, because we don't know them; we have to discover them one by one, just like prospective partners have to.”
True, and what you *can* identify is only skimming the surface… the little ducks are madly paddling down below and who knows, really, how that all works…
Ferns
puppy: “That's very, *very* thought provoking, Miss Ferns. All I can say for now is 'Gulp'”
And thank you for the Gulpage, puppy!
Ferns
Peroxide: ” But falling for someone is scary business, are you sure there's no loopholes?”
Sorry, Peroxide, there are no loopholes… Not even at the loophole shop where they claim to have all the loopholes you could ever want, for any purpose, and not even in the loophole bargain bin or the 'hard to find' loopholes section…
” Firstly all this talk of cracks and fingers sounds filthy”
Shame on you, you have a dirty little mind! What are you even doing here on my nice clean blog?!
” Secondly this sounds like a terrific way to have my still beating heart ripped out of my chest and stomped on it till it's the consistency of something that you'd spread on toast”
*laugh* It is yes, and that is exactly why I look at boys who can do it and am in awe of the courage and strength they have. If it was easy, if anyone could do it, I might be looking at it and going 'meh, whatever' instead of going 'OMG OMG OMFG!!!' and falling down in a complete swooning faint at their feet while demanding more toast spread with that incredible yumminess.
“But dammit I want to skip straight to the hot stuff.”
Without it, you can only get luke warm… off you go then, it's in the back, in the bain marie, a little stale, but it'll do, right?
“I guess I'm surprised how much stock you put in email, as much as I like the written word, I constantly second guess how I'm going to come across in text. I'd be trying hard not to get my hopes up till I'd met in person.”
Your point about getting hopes up is a good one. I go from email to IM and phone before meeting, and I am very careful to manage both of our expectations along the way *even if I feel 'it'*, or maybe *especially* if I feel 'it'. I do it that way because I know that that's what works best for me. It won't work for many people and one of the reasons for that is because they fall in love with their own imagined fantasy in the process if it's not managed carefully, and nobody can live up to stuff someone makes up in their head.
Ferns
“Not even at the loophole shop where they claim to have all the loopholes you could ever want”
– yeah I checked their online store as well, clean out. I saw one posted on ebay but the bidding was already way out of my pay-grade.
“Shame on you, you have a dirty little mind! What are you even doing here on my nice clean blog?!”
Yes, shame on me, I'm a naughty, naughty boy. Really, I should be punished.
“If it was easy, if anyone could do it… Without it, you can only get luke warm…off you go then, it's in the back, in the bain marie, a little stale, but it'll do, right?”
Fine, I concede your point. Even though my poor heart is held together with duct tape and wishful thinking I'd put it on the line for some proper hotness. But I expect some sympathy next time I've got to scrape what's left of me off some leftover toast points.
“It won't work for many people… because they fall in love with their own imagined fantasy in the process…and nobody can live up to stuff someone makes up in their head.”
Indeed, I may know a thing or two about unrealistic fantasies, one of the down sides to an active imagination.
Thanks for the brilliant post! It answers questions I didn't even know I had.
OnyxCoquelicot: “I can also relate to this! I've always collected boys (non-sexually, as friends) and it's because some of them just… work.:
Ahhh… interesting!
“…it's this weird feeling that I can – ah, so hard to describe – carefully sink my will through their skin and claim them.”
I love the way you described that!! I think of it as reaching in and touching things inside him, but I do like how you 'sink your will through their skin'… that's awesome imagery.
“If they are one of mine, I always want more of their time, mind, and heart.”
I like very much also your identifying them as 'one of mine'… that's a wonderful way of describing the connection.
“I've been 'off the market', so to speak, for about a decade, so the worst is when I find one of mine and they are without (a) desired significant other(s). I always worry I'm going to ruin him by tying him to me, of exploring the deep connection.”
I'm not poly, so I can't quite relate to this, but I do know that I am very careful with boys who I can see will be strongly impacted by me if I am not interested in them. I think there is potential for lots of hurt in it, so I understand your concern.
“I am terrified that someday it won't and that it will be all my fault. :(“
*nod* I think the fear is healthy. It seems to me like you have a really good understanding of the potential (both good and bad) of it, and I imagine that would go a long way in protecting you and yours.
Thank you for sharing so much, really fascinating.
Ferns
Peroxide: “Yes, shame on me, I'm a naughty, naughty boy. Really, I should be punished.”
*snort*
“Fine, I concede your point. Even though my poor heart is held together with duct tape and wishful thinking I'd put it on the line for some proper hotness. But I expect some sympathy next time I've got to scrape what's left of me off some leftover toast points.”
The sympathy shall be forthcoming… and I shall also ask you if it was worth it, and you will say 'oh hell yes!' and then there will be champagne!
Ferns
Anonymous: “Thanks for the brilliant post! It answers questions I didn't even know I had.”
You're welcome!
I have to note that this comment sounds suspiciously like spam, but since there are no links to xxxpronsexx.com, then you are kind of a rubbish spammer who forgot the link… bless!
If you are not a spammer, I apologise for casting aspersions on you, dear anonymous!
Ferns
Thank You so much for this post – it gave me a great insight into the mind of a domme and also made me aware of my own feelings.
As a guy who is gradually discovering he is a sub, i have almost the mirror-image of the kind of emotions you describe.
“… there is a thing that happens that makes me go 'oh'. The revelation that he is capable, willing and eager to open himself up to the level of vulnerability that I want is slow, it's not like some flash of lightning out of the blue and it's certainly not something that he offers up to me on a plate at the beginning.”
i had that same kind of “oh” moment when i read Your post. i am realising i want to open myself in that way to Ms. Right. i am willing and eager to open myself up to the level of vulnerability a Domme wants from me. i just hope i am capable as well!
“How it works for me is that there is something that happens between us as we get to know each other where I inadvertently hit his buttons as our communication progresses, and I can *feel* it opening him up.”
That part of your post made me melt. it hit me like a ton of bricks that i want to experience that. i want a woman to open me up like that. most of all, i want her to feel me opening up like that.
Dan C: “Thank You so much for this post – it gave me a great insight into the mind of a domme and also made me aware of my own feelings.”
I'm so glad that you got something out of it!
“i am realising i want to open myself in that way to Ms. Right. i am willing and eager to open myself up to the level of vulnerability a Domme wants from me. i just hope i am capable as well!”
*smile* That is a big 'oh' realisation for sure! You raise an interesting point about the 'capable' and you are spot on in suggesting that you really won't know if you are capable until you get there. Though I have to say that you might meet women with whom you are *not* capable before you meet one with whom you are. It is as much a product of the dynamic as it is your ability to go there.
“That part of your post made me melt. it hit me like a ton of bricks that i want to experience that. i want a woman to open me up like that. most of all, i want her to feel me opening up like that.”
It is totally meltworthy, and special, and rare to find. I wish it for you.
Ferns