Edited To Add: Here’s a link to the post with my answer to this question and advice for anyone who’s struggling with it in their dynamic:
When your submissive says ‘no’
I was going to write a post pontificating about this, as I tend to do, and then I thought I’d ask you all instead of blathering on about it from my own point of view.
For both submissives and dominants:
In your relationship, what happens when the submissive disobeys?
For the purposes of this question, I am using the word ‘disobey’ to mean ‘to refuse or fail to follow an order or rule.’ Not an accident, not a mistake, no unavoidable circumstances. Plain old disobedience.
If you haven’t got any experience to draw on because you are new, that’s fine, just talk about what your expectations are.
I’m particularly interested in hearing from submissives on this.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts!
93 comments
Hi, I’m a sub, new (if 41 can be called new) and single. For me by far large one of the most effective punishments aside from physical is coffee deprivation. I’ve considered putting it on my hard limits list. I can have up to 7 coffees a day, take that away & I’m a mess. Lesson learned very quickly.
This made me chuckle (wow, 7 a day? God, I’d never sleep!). Thank you.
I shall hide this from any prospective dominants!
Ferns
My Dom wants to release me, he tricked to see if he could trust me so he got a phony name pretend to be an anonymous person, I lied to the the anonymous person about my Dom how can I make it right again with my Dom so he won’t release me? He took screenshots of my conversation with mr. Anonymous, please help
@Jeanne: You were in a relationship in which your Dom didn’t trust you. So he snuck around and lied to you to prove to himself that his suspicions were right.
I know some people can recover from breaches of trust, but in my opinion, your relationship is toast.
You have each now created a situation where lies and mistrust will linger: You have shown you are a liar, he has shown he is happy to lie to you to ‘test’ you because he doesn’t trust you.
My advice: Apologise for the lie. Learn a lesson, move on.
Best of luck.
Ferns
It’s a bit difficult, because there would still have to be *some* reason for the disobedience (“I didn’t feel like it” is a reason). I think what is most important to figure out the ‘why.’ Why did they act or fail to act in accordance to the relationship’s rules? This basic bit of communication is necessary and if unable to yield results, I’d suspect the relationship is doomed to fail (This is hardly a D/s-only thing either, IMO).
Once the ‘why’ is sorted, what comes next? Some may say punishment, some not. I’m still up in the air about it. Certainly psychology tells us positive reinforcement is better than negative but there is also something to be said for the power of penance. I think I’m of the mind that punishment for a mistake or accident is actually more appropriate than for willful disobedience – steps can be taken to avoid accidents and mistakes and I think an appropriate punishment can help reinforce that or help the submissive to remember how/when/why to do or not do whatever it is.
Punishment is not going to solve or help with willful disobedience, however. In these cases there is some other core issue that needs to be addressed. It’s almost akin to cheating – willfully crossing relationship boundaries they agreed not to. Removing tele privileges isn’t going to fix or change that.
We follow JT’s approach. If I disobey (which is rare) that means there’s something wrong — most often a spike in anxiety or depression. We talk about it, try to figure out the origin, if it is concrete, and how to correct it (or help remedy it if correction isn’t relevant).
There may or may not be following consequences, but they’re considered, relevant, and proportionate. There’s not been an occasion where Jalan saw fit to actually punish me.
And, also as JT says, punishment generally doesn’t work. In a learning-theory perspective, all it does is teach the offender to not confess or get caught.
My Dom is just learning the life style I’m an experienced sub he asked me to take nude photos of females for him and gave me a time limit I don’t have female friends I am willing to do this with I explained this to him he thinks I just was being extremely disobedient how can I address him that this really wasn’t a fair test of obedience
@Sheruh: Ugh. So dude wants you to up his porn stash by getting you to treat other women like his own personal wank bank. He is not just inexperienced, he’s an arsehole who’s watched too much porn. Sorry, he is.
Tell him to fuck off, find someone who isn’t such a douchebag.
(as to your actual question: you don’t need to talk to him about obedience in this instance: He has asked you to do something that is possibly unethical (I’m going to assume one of his conditions wasn’t about the women’s consent), unacceptable to you (for good reason) if not impossible, and unreasonable because he’s putting you in the position of pressuring OTHER women to meet his timeline so that you can obey him. There is so much wrong in that I can’t even… Tell him that ‘using other women as wank fodder’ is one of your newly discovered hard limits, and if he won’t accept that, we’re back at “Tell him to fuck off, find someone who isn’t such a douchebag.”)
Ferns
Your Dom sounds like a creep. Safe sane consensual. If you find the task beyond your limits then you are entitled to say. It sounds more like manipulation than control.
I agree with you it’s not fair if it’s not your preference but it should be talked between both of you .
I can’t go on any longer giving her most of my money i need to quit says she’s going to my work having me fired
Interesting question. If I am understanding what you are asking, I think you may have already spoken about this in the past:
https://www.domme-chronicles.com/2011/11/when-your-submissive-says-no.html
But maybe I am not quite understanding the question? At any rate, for me, you captured the way I think it should work very well in that previous post. And it is in line with what JT
Revner said above.
To me, willful disobedience means that something needs to be addressed in the relationship. What is going on that makes someone who seemed to want this dynamic not want it?
cheers!
“If I am understanding what you are asking, I think you may have already spoken about this in the past”
*smile* Yes, but shhhh… I want to hear from different people how it works for them, to hear a bit of variety.
Ferns
*Smile* Got it.
Also punch him in the throat and say Coug an experienced Domme told you to do it *nods wisely*
Coug
Funny you.
Could you please email me
[email protected].
I want to run something’s by you
This is my opinion in my opinion only. The line between BDSM and abuse essentially boils down to trust. If you’re in a loving relationship that’s beneficial to you both then if there’s a problem then you should be able to work that problem out. That’s always been a hard limit for me. I have no problem at all doing whatever my significant other tells me to do except finances. If I was not secure in finances then that point of insecurity would drive a wedge between us to the point that we would break up. This all goes back to Safe sane and consensual. One issue I have with femdom is the whole women are superior number. When women are no more Superior to men than men are superior to women. If an individual is more dominant or more submissive by nature and they given a relationship it’s just that relationship. Doesn’t mean you’re smarter or Dumber doesn’t mean you’re stronger or weaker all it means is you’re different . Vive La difference is my motto.
When I disobey, either there is a misunderstanding or something is significantly wrong. In the context of D/s, I don’t do what I’m told because I want to do that specific thing; I do what I’m told because I like doing what I’m told and making my partner happy and proud. The last time I bottomed, things went pretty badly and we called it off pretty quickly. It wasn’t something that I recognized going into play, but I was upset and hurt by unrelated things in my life, and I just wasn’t in the right emotional state to be playing. We took plenty of time to talk through it and settle things down, and we tried to find ways to prevent anything like that from happening again.
Hi Ferns:
I rarely disobey Her Majesty if she issues a direct command. To do this would incur her displeasure which is something I reaaaaaaallllly don’t like doing!!! She does not whip me for disobedience because that would be like rewarding bad behavior. I really hate making her angry though. Her wrath is invariably punishment enough. I am wired to please her so when she is displeased with me I am not happy.
There are times when we have to step “out of character” and discuss things though; especially when they relate to non D/s issues affecting our vanilla lives. Not everything works well when put through a D/s filter. At those times we are just an ordinary married couple doing our best to make it through the obstacle course of life…
I had to ask myself: “Under what circumstances would I just disobey?” and I’d have to concur with JT that if it came down to blatant disobedience, the relationship is in deep trouble.
I could imagine a scenario in which I thought that my Domme no longer cared one way or the other and if the established rules were no longer important to her, I could see losing interest in them as well. Another case would be if there was sudden a rule change, or a new one introduced that we hadn’t previously agreed on and I felt it to be particularly egregious.
In either case, the actual reason for such blatant disregard for the rules would have been due to communication and, or trust having broken down completely and at that point, it would probably be time to reevaluate the relationship.
“In your relationship, what happens when the submissive disobeys?”
Okay, I started not to comment since I have no experience. However, I am going to speak of how I feel anyway.
In the D/s relationship that I seek as the submissive I willingly give myself to her authority. I agreed to obey her rules which we both have already talked about.
Thus, for me to disobey by refusing to follow through with my end of the agreement it means that I am knowingly breaking the dynamic. Something extremely serious has to be wrong for me to break the very dynamic for which I devote myself.
When, and if, we can work it out, then I not only would expect, but hope for some type of punishment. Not because I like to be punished, but because if not I will just continue to punish myself and I won’t be able to move past it knowing how much I hurt and disappointed her and hurt our dynamic.
Then after the punishment was over with I would work to regain our dynamic and regain her trust. For me to disobey my Dominant partner is very hurtful and disrespectful to her. I would have to work on regaining that her respect for me and my commitment to serving her. I would do this by showing her every day how much I am devoted to obeying her authority.
I know I am new but this is what I feel in my heart.
Respectfully,
Mysticlez
I’m going to answer this differently from both perspectives, if that’s all right.
I used to send a man letters with instructions, and because of his busy schedule and the variable reliability of the post office, rarely attached a time limit to them. There were times it got excessive, I’d poke with “you know I can’t *make* you, but you’re showing me this isn’t a priority.” We’d talk about it–early on he was afraid to seem too keen or fawning. I didn’t want to enact punishment per se; I associate punishment with anger and vengeance and that just wasn’t how I felt. So I just said he’d get no new letters (or any D/s type interaction) during the time he was putting off the last one: essentially “I’m not interested in dominating unless you’re actively demonstrating a will to submit.” That worked for a while. At the end he got lax again. That time, the dynamic wasn’t working given distance and his other obligations, so we ended it. Shame.
From the submissive end, it’s happened once, and it was an indicator of Serious Relationship Issues. My dom was evading a conversation I felt we needed to have. I wanted the relationship and dynamic to continue, but not enough to ignore my own needs. When repeatedly saying this didn’t have an effect, I started saying “no” to everything. “Give me a wake-up call at eight.” “No, not until you commit to a conversation.” It was a last-ditch “do not take my submission for granted, show me you actually care” and, predictably, it did not work. So we ended it. Shame.
So let’s file this under “Nic is terrible at relationships,” along with the other 84,000 indicators of the same, yeah?
As has been said… I don’t *just* disobey. The only time I really do… and by disobey, I mean get mouthy, unruly, disrespectful in tone or in words, stiff, shut down… is when something is wrong with me or when I feel like I’m not getting enough attention (work, etc gets in the way. We don’t live together). It’s very hard for me to verbalize these things and is an ongoing struggle that I am working to overcome with my D-type. Not for him, but for me, with his help. I am also misbehaving when I speak badly about myself, as I am, from time to time, wont to do.
My punishment for these things is a discussion, encouragement, and usually a cathartic spanking. We enjoy spanking for arousal… but when I’ve been corrected over these… emotional outbursts or lapses in respect, the spanking is definitely cathartic with tears and lots of cuddle and reassurance time afterward.
I don’t not follow rules… I don’t act out like that. All my rules are reasonable and discussed before hand. It’s more of an attitude adjustment that I need from time to time.
Xoxo
I think this might be my first comment on your blog, if it is, I’m not lurking anymore, arrrgh. *hides from the light*
I’m a bit of a bondage junkie – ok, I lie, a massively addicted to bondage junkie, so usually my punishments involve generally either a flogging or spanking, followed up by a lack of being put in bondage.
It’s a carrot and stick approach for me really. I behave because I want to be put in stupidly restrictive things. Yet somehow if I behave I still get the stick anyway, it’s just a gentler stick, lol.
I did not take “plain old disobedience” to mean willful disobedience. I agree that willful disobedience would definitely be cause for a conversation. One that might start with did they disobey on purpose to earn a punishment because they desire that punishment or are there, as talked about above, more underlying reasons?
I thought the about the question more in the realm of the “to refuse or fail to follow an order or rule” scenario. For example I am given certain tasks to perform for the day and am told no TV before they are done. Ahh.. but there’s a ballgame on, and I’m now home alone so why can’t I perform my tasks while catching the game as well but get caught.
No TV at all for a specific time frame might be an obvious punishment, but isn’t that somewhat in place already? How about I’m taken to a store and forced to buy a very expensive jersey of my arch rival’s team. Then she makes me spend the entire day out in public. Shopping, a walk in the park, dinner out together, all things I normally look forward to doing with her, but now there’s that added angst. The pleasure of her company mixed with a constant reminder of my failings. Oh yes and a bit of humiliation thrown in as well, as if any comments or compliments are thrown my way about my attire I must profess my devotion to the team(and convincingly).
Did I willingly disobey? Kind of sort of? Was there underlying issues? No, not really, I just thought I’d get away with watching the game and doing my chores. Would a TV ban have worked? Been there done that. I’d have gotten through. Corporal punishment? Hmmm… kind of like that ~smiles. Do I ever want to wear that jersey again, let alone out in public? No never ever and I will do what ever it takes to make sure I don’t!
My sub and I were just talking about this yesterday. He occasionally has this theory that because he’s a man, he’s supposed to be independent and self-sufficient and a lone wolf and unencumbered by weakness!!11!! which, well, we are working on dealing with. We decided that infractions (disobedience that isn’t malicious or signifying of relationship issues, that is) would be addressed with essays. If he does something because he lets his pride get in the way, and he thinks he can handle it a better way than mine, and he breaks one of the protocols, he has to write me an essay about why he was supposed to do things my way.
If it’s disobedience where it was just forgetfulness (example: supposed to be working on an essay? buuuut people are wrong on the internet and now instead he’s working on an essay on the evils of economic misinformation and oppression, or you know, fl) he gets hit with a rubberband.
As you know, I’m just a wide-eyed newbie so my first reaction to your question was: *gasp* “Refuse or fail to follow an order?! The horror!”
I can’t think of a context where a rule or order would be intentionally refused provided that it was safe, sane, so forth. I’d like to think that we sign up for the obedience as part of the D/s dynamic. I mean isn’t that the fun part? (um…I mean one of the fun parts)
My assumption is that this type of issue isn’t that different than any other type of relationship hurdle, right? One or both parties need to hit the pause button so they can talk it through. Granted, I would also assume that the dominant would be the one to hold the sub accountable for the disobedient act but even if not, it would seem like there’s a communication gap to address.
I went to a class several months ago where D/s couples were talking about how they address communication gaps or misunderstandings or *gasp* arguments, and there were some great suggestions for ways that subs can call attention to a need or issue without being all un-sublike.
I wouldn’t suppose to know how to address the whole consequences/punishment, etc of the act but I really enjoyed reading the input from the previous commenters.
If he breaks the agreements of our relationship intentionally, I will have a discussion with him about why he did it and how we can prevent it in the future. However,it will erode my trust in his submission a little. If it happens again, we’re going to have another conversation. But the trust that he will submit will be damaged again. And I will start backing off. I won’t try to force him. I won’t demand his submission. (Because I really can’t make another adult do *anything* he doesn’t want to do)I’m not going to “take control.” That isn’t my style at all. I want him to give the authority to me that we agree on then continue to choose to give me that authority every day.
Eventually, if he were to continue to stop holding up his end of the bargain… submitting, then I’m not interested in my end either… and my domination efforts will go elsewhere.
You may not be aware of this, but I am a huge brat. When I disobey, it’s normally because that’s a part of the dynamic;
Top: Do the thing.
Me: Nuh uh.
Top: *makes me do the thing*
I enjoy being punished, in that I like that my actions have consequences, but I don’t actually enjoy the punishment, if that makes sense. Most of what I do is play rather than any kind of intense D/s, but punishments in the past have involved cornertime, pain (I hate pain), and writing lines.
Myself http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/giggle-maniacally-and-purge-it-with-fire.png
Or if it’s a possible deal breaker discuss it as appropriate, punish with or without an explanation depending on circs again. If it’s become/becoming a habit then it’s pretty much over
Coug
Thanks everyone.
I’m wanting to talk about this more, but am avoiding commenting so as not to influence people’s thoughts. I really appreciate your input so far.
Ferns
I think your comment shut everyone else down, Ferns… that or there are only a handful of people who can bring themselves to push the “Post Comment” button? Is there data on number of unique ip hits vs number of comments? Could you graph it? :O
*smile* Graph porn!
I probably could if I had any idea how to get those stats…
Ferns
9 times out of 10, if my submissive disobeys, it’s usually due to work stress and/or sheer exhaustion. We’ve worked out over the course of the last few months that negative reinforcement does a lot more harm than good. We end up talking about what’s going on in his life and how to best alleviate whatever issues are going on. This happens instead of whatever scene or play that had been planned (even if we both want to go ahead with it; denial is the most effective deterrent.)
As many others here said, outright disobedience is rarely, if ever, part of a well-functioning D/s relationship, not the sort that isn’t an accident or without a good reason. My only experience with this was in my first D/s relationship, 25 years ago, when I balked at an instruction and wasn’t allowed to voice my problem with it. I was sent away to sit and consider my disobedience. I remember it as unfair, extremely stressful, and avoidable. I had given my consent for most types of play between the two of us, but I had some limits, or at least concerns, about play involving people who had not agreed to join us. In that case, I was supposed to approach random people at a party. I wasn’t entirely sure what I was supposed to do, but my discomfort was a larger issue than the lack of detailed instructions and we should have discussed it.
I love these replies, thank you so much.
I’ve been wanting to gather them up into a separate post, but haven’t gotten around to it yet, so please don’t think your thoughts have gone into the void!
I’m slow but dogged *smile*
Ferns
When the consequence affect third parties, especially children.
Wife may tell me “do A for the children after you get home.”
If I think doing B would be better, I’d disregard her instruction. At the time of my decision, I figure if I have good reasons, she’d understand later.
Thanks, Her Subject.
Ferns
I came here looking for some ideas because we are writing our protocol and I have requested to have accountability.
Sir does not think spanking will work because I enjoy it too much.
Honestly though, I’m slightly amused by how many people feel that disobedience signifies an under lying issue in the relationship.
I have so many temperamental weaknesses that I need trained out of me. I’m not bratty, I’m undisciplined. I want to follow orders, but I’m lazy and selfish. If he asks me to get something done, and I don’t, it’s something I need to be disciplined for. Maybe my parents didn’t do their job well enough, but my lack of self-discipline leaves me nearly non-functional as an adult. I’m hoping that some of my more childish habits can be trained out of me to make for a better D/s experience between us both.
For the record, I was also that child that responded to spankings better than any other punishment.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and experience: it’s great to hear different perspectives. There are so many ways to approach this, and every relationship is different.
I hope your relationship continues to go well and good luck with your protocols.
Ferns
I can absolutely be bratty at times especially, due to my normally sarcastic nature. I try my best to curb it when I am in a D/s relationship but I am by no means perfect. If I want to purposely be defiant and say no, that is my internal indication that something is not right and we need to talk.
On the other hand, my personality yearns to make the people I care about happy. I am also very introverted. Just telling me that I’ve disappointed you or made you unhappy? My own internal dialogue can be all the punishment necessary. I hate making people unhappy. It completely tears me up inside.
Jon
Last week my Dom got into a heated discussion with me in which he became incredibly angry. In this tense moment he decided that this was a good time to tell me about a new rule he wanted to enforce after months of little to no new rules outside of the bedroom. He is well aware that I have issues around eating/food/diet but wanted to enforce a rule where I must lose 20 lbs in two months (a very unhealthy amount) and excercise strenuously three times a week. I am only a few pounds overweight for my height and am generally mindful about what I eat. He said this is partially because I made a joke about needing to go on a diet after the holidays and he made very cruel comments about not letting me turn into my mother and telling me what he thought my ex husband must have thought about my body. The fact that he decided to take an unrelated argument and turn it into springing a new extreme rule and ripping apart my self esteem (I had previously valued that I felt confident and pretty around him) devastated me. I flat out told him no I would not agree to this new rule and that I was not ok with the way he had spoken to me and that I wish I could unhear everything he said. He said that fine, I’d see how I do without him and has completely had me on ignore ever since. The last time he cut me off completely to enforce an extreme rule was devastating for me and I was assured that it was not a tactic that would be used against me again. I feel like I have lost trust in him. I also do not think it is fair to have punishment for not agreeing to a new rule on a fundamental level around safety and my own mental health.
Please tell me that it was ok to say no to him in this scenario… I am generally very agreeable with rules and obedience and would be happy with even more structure. I am incredibly devoted and loving sub with some kink background but little previous experience with structured BDSM dynamics. Am I crazy and just a bad sub for refusing to follow this new rule?
SHIT YES IT’S OKAY THAT YOU SAID NO!! Not just okay, but really important. You did great, truly.
None of this is okay. None of it. You are NOT crazy and you are NOT a bad sub.
He is being the worst kind of arsehole for ALL THE REASONS:
1. Lashing out when he is angry
2. Suddenly introducing a new rule when you are fighting
3. Introducing an unsafe and unrealistic rule AT ALL
4. Adding a rule that he knows will hit issues you already have
5. Doing it in a way that makes you feel bad about yourself
6. Saying hurtful things to have a go at you
7. Ignoring you when he doesn’t get his way
None of that is okay. At all. Fuck that guy!
He’s being an abusive arsehole in all the ways, he has no control over himself, and he’s incredibly immature. None of it is your fault.
I don’t know how long you have been seeing him, but if this is how he behaves (and it obviously is because he has done this before), he is showing you exactly what he’s like. Believe him and get out.
*warm hugs*
Ferns
Good for you for saying no! We submissive types tend to be easily…mistreated, because of the way our personalities are wired. Not only is it okay that you said no, but you should feel proud of having enough strength and self-respect to put your foot down. Your judgment about what’s right and healthy is good; his isn’t.
This guy isn’t trustworthy, especially if this is the second time he’s done this after promising you he wouldn’t do it again after the first time. I hope you won’t stay with him.
Fat shaming (when you clearly aren’t in fact)?
Body/Age shaming (that crack about becoming your mother)?
Emotional Blackmail (cutting off)?
Jesus, Seriously? What a hateful prick he is.
Dominants are supposed to *build*, not demolish, a submissives’ self esteem.
Kick him to the Kerb. You are definitely better off without that sort of behaviour.
He clearly doesn’t value *you*, he values a slave and emotional punchbag, and he clearly thinks you were so weak, you’d tolerate his abuse. Good for you for standing up to abuse instead!
/agree with ferns 100% too/
I’m a new sub and I don’t even like the idea of punishment, that’s why it works so well. Even knowing Sir is upset with me makes me feel bad and he knows it. I make mistakes like everyone but most of the time scolding works just fine.
“I’m a new sub and I don’t even like the idea of punishment, that’s why it works so well. Even knowing Sir is upset with me makes me feel bad and he knows it. I make mistakes like everyone but most of the time scolding works just fine”
That’s why it’s a punishment, you aren’t meant to like it, not to be confused with funishment of course. We all make mistakes (Cept me and Ferns cos we are the Dommeliest of Dommes ;) ) but learning from them is the way forward. Welcome to the fun world though love
Coug
I’m new to the sub life and the dom that found me is too. I’m a male and she is the female. I’m her first official sub so she is slightly new to this. Before we even put our foot in the water we discussed all sorts of our different fetishes and desires. What was expected if each other. We both have kids and lives outside of this world we play together in. One day while I was shopping for summer clothes for my kids she ordered me to go to the women’s dept, find a dress and put it on in the changing room and take a pic. I told her I would not do tasks that could expose what me and her have going on and to make this work she could never do that again. She knew she stepped over the boundaries but kept in character and told me punishment will come either way. She never said she wouldn’t do something like that again directly but told me through her punishment and that punishment was for me to go to the restaurant at a certain time and find a place to sit where she could see my face clearly. So I did.when I showed up she was already seated and I picked a spot where she could see me clearly. A few mins later a stud she had been talking to showed up and I was made to watch her on her date. HELLO!!!! Talk about hot! I loved how she was flirting with him. Now and then she would glance at me, smile and play with her hair. It was great. And that punishment told me she was sorry for stepping over the boundaries. She is a great dom and I LOVE to please her. Her name is Magic.
Im in a sub/dom relationship my dom asked me to do something i didnt do it what is a suitable punishment we normaly text and face time when we face time i play for him hes not text much or face timed since i disobeyed its killing me is this a norma punishmemt
@Jeanette, I don’t think asking me what a suitable punishment is will help you. Everyone’s relationships are different and everyone deals with things in different ways, so what I think is suitable is irrelevant.
I think that if he hasn’t clearly said ‘This is your punishment, here’s how it’s going to work, and this is how long it will go on for’, and he’s just sort of ignoring you or giving you less attention without talking about anything, then it’s pretty much vanilla-level passive-aggressive immaturity.
Regardless of what a punishment is, I think it’s pointless, and it won’t achieve anything productive, unless there is effective communication around it.
So my suggestion: If you aren’t sure if it’s a punishment, straight up ask him if he can please let you know. Then wait it out. When he decides to get back to normal, pick a calm time and a neutral place, and talk about this angst you had around not knowing what was going on and how it doesn’t work for you, that it just makes you hurt and anxious.
I don’t want to insult you or your relationship, but you sound young and this sounds like online-only, so I’m going to say it anyway: If your interactions are all about you doing naked-hot things on cam and sexting him and the thing you didn’t do was something that was going to get him off, and THIS is how he reacts, he is grooming you as his personal porn provider and not building a relationship. If that’s cool with you because it’s fun and hot, okay. But if that’s the case and he doesn’t get his porn, he’s probably going to dump you. If you have any doubt at all about what is going on here, please don’t give him anything that has you doing sex acts in a way that makes you identifiable because who knows where it could end up.
I hope you get it sorted.
Ferns
I’m a new Sub, with a new Dom. I’m really struggling because he gives me “assignments” which may take 12 – 15 hours a week(with deadlines), plus being available to talk and play. I try to do them all but I honestly don’t have this much time to give him. When I comment that I can’t or that I will try but it is a lot of time, he says he doesn’t feel my submission, I’m not making it a priority, or I don’t appreciate his effort. Which makes me feel terrible. Then I get a punishment. Ok. Then I have the same problem the following week. I try, I fail, I get punished. I feel soaring anxiety every time I get a task list, it isn’t fun, and I don’t want to play anymore because I feel so anxious about this. He keeps saying I don’t want to be a Sub because otherwise I would accomplish it all. I wouldn’t argue about his tasks. I wouldn’t be thinking “This is too much to do!” I would be thinking “I must accomplish this for Sir!”
Maybe I am not meant to be a Sub. But my failure / refusal comes from being overwhelmed.
Ugh that sounds awful :(.
It’s not you: Your dom is an idiot, probably woefully inexperienced, and thinks porn is real life.
Harsh, I know, but come on! He is setting you up to fail over and over again and either he thinks this is great fun and doesn’t doesn’t care about how distressed this is making you or he genuinely thinks this is ‘how you dom’ (and still doesn’t care about how distressed this is making you).
Even if there’s a compatibility issue, he doesn’t get to blame you for it and continue behaving in the same way. That’s being an arsehole.
I assume from the way you have worded this that it’s online which makes it even easier to say “Your dom is a jerk and you should dump him.”
My more nuanced advice is this: Make some ‘we have to talk’ time to lay this out seriously, tell him about the demands on your time (work, family, life, stuff), about your feelings of anxiety, about feeling like a failure, about how none of this is enjoyable to you.
If he repeats his domlydomdom schtick about how you’re a bad submissive (i.e. ‘it’s not my fault it’s yours’), then seriously: DTMFA (Dump The MotherFucker Already).
D/s should be enjoyable for both of you, and if your dominant doesn’t care if it’s awful for you and refuses to listen or change things that clearly aren’t working, and blames you for it, he’s an arsehole and doesn’t deserve you (or any submissive).
Ferns
Thanks for making me smile. I’ll remember the domlydomdom for a secret bratty laugh ???
Very late into this post but I was searching for the right forum to find support and guidance. My disposition I’m sure isn’t that unique. I’m a Dominant sadomasochist naturally all my life but walked as a mirror to myself a deep desire to submit. I found someone capable enough to take me. Recently I play with other people I felt as though my Master put his desires first without any consideration of my role or feelings and in an instant made me feel like a slave not the sub I’d proudly become. It was a moment of angst that made me unruly and combative because I am not a slave. His argument was whatever Master says I should’ve followed so I’m at a juxtaposition with everything about this relationship, wanting of course to please my Master but at the same time not losing the respect I’ve found in submission to him. He has gone silent on me for more than 14 hours and won’t respond to my messages or calls. I’m physically ill and although as a masochist I should delight in the pleasure of this new found pain I cannot seem to qualify it with feelings of being unwanted, unloved and abandoned.
I’m so sorry I missed your comment. I do hope you found support and guidance elsewhere.
Ferns
Thank you for your response regardless. Needless to say things ended badly. Found out he is a man married 22 years with 2 children. I guess he envisioned I’d become a hobby.
Hi, I myself am a budding dom here. My sub girlfriend willingly wants to be submit to me and tries to fulfill my every wish and desire. However with certain small rules like addressing herself in 3rd person or certain big rules like not going out with other men alone, (due to a rough past with alot of men) she tends to forget or forge a reason as to why she disobeyed. She always says it wont happen again but it does. I habe made my fair share of emotional mistakes and been a pathetic dom in the past but Im still growing. Should I just quit with her? She says she wants to submit and make me happy but when she disobeys, her only reasons are she forgot or it didn’t cross her mind.
I wrote a post on ‘what to do if your submissive says ‘no’‘: Go take a look you, might find it helpful.
Even if your submissive didn’t say ‘no’ exactly, breaking rules and coming up with ‘meh’ reasons is something that you need to get to the bottom of.
There are a ton of options between where you are now and ‘quit with her’.
Ferns
One dominant woman, Alexa Martinez, has a number of ideas for a Female Led Relationship (FLR). See her online article-Develop a Female-Led Relatiohship.
https://filthy.media/develop-a-female-led-relationship
One tactic for training her husband is “using a dominant mentor”. Martinez has brought in other dominant women to train her husband. With no romantic attachment, Martinez says, there is a somewhat different dynamic when these other women order her husband about.
These dominant women are also peer mentors for each other.
Ugh. Please read with a more critical eye: That is some utter bullshit in that article.
Ferns
Wow…
1. Being Submissive and being a slave are two completely different things. As a submissive you are actually the one in control. Why? Because you set the rules as to what you allow and will not allow aka Soft and Hard limits.
Does this mean you have there for relinquished all ability to say no? No… That is the difference between a Submissive vs Slave. Does that mean you are a doormat for someone to do whatever it is they what that is against what you are comfortable with? No…
You should have a safe word and play should end. If you voice your concern, this compromises your mental health, this is something unethical, or damn if you just don’t feel comfortable doing it.
YOU DONT HAVE TO DO IT
Not only do you not have to do it. Anyone who is trying to force you. That’s not Dominate behavior. That’s just a plain asshole using the D/s relationship as a way to manipulate you.
There are lots of people who enter the D/s would because they are selfish and self serving. They want the power of being a Dom but they aren’t. They are weak and insecure. So they prey upon Subs. For all kinds of reasons.
I actually enjoy D/s. Will I sub yes. However I am not into specific things. I don’t not give consent for those things. If a Dom asks me to do those things I will out right tell them to fuck themselves. Does this make me a bad sub. No I am a human and I have boundaries. Submission is a choice. If you have established boundaries and this person is violating them. Then using emotional warfare or the threat of abandonment to force you into something you don’t want to do. Again that is just plain manipulation.
For anyone that is new to BDSM. I thing the best advice I can say is to look up (google the term) BDSM list. It has all sorts of things. Figure out yourself first and what you would like, what you are curious about, soft limits and hard limits. Before you enter into a relationship have a discussion with the other person. Y’all can negotiated on terms.
Personally I like the words yellow and red. Yellow means your getting to the point where might feel like you want to stop and red is an all together hard stop. Play is over.
Your Dom should be checking with you. Aftercare should start where you both talk about things. This is not a mood killer. This is saying you have reach a point where you are no longer comfortable and do not want to participate.
If you have a good Dom they will be checking in with you and asking what color. Like Green for the go ahead.
Even if you have previously agreed and then when put in a specific situation and it’s not ok. Again YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO.
That is especially true when something is new to you.
For all you Doms out there your Subs give you the power. They willing submit. This is a gift and not a right. If a Sub chooses not to do something. Stop play and talk about it.
Said task or action could be beyond what is comfortable. There could be other inlying issues in the relationship you have or with them in general.
If you are not doing this, or not willing to. Then when the power is taken away. Instead of questioning the Submissive. Why don’t you take a look at your own behavior?
Have you violated this person’s trust? Have you been disrespectful? There is a difference from pushing the boundaries and completely ignoring them. There doesn’t just have to be “after care”. The caring should just not be limited to after play, but checking on that person before, and addressing them first as a person. Then second comes the behind closed doors part.
When i disobey ( which is almost never) there is usually a reason and we talk about it, i don’t get punished at all, he helps me work things out if he can. but when i make a mistake or mess up i get punished, but even than he will talk to me about why this happened and then i will get the punishment, i hate the cane so that’s usually what i will get but in my limits of course.
Whatever works for you and your dominant is great :).
Ferns
My Dom and I are also polyamorous. He has two of us that are collared. However his other sub/ relationship has purposely taken her collar off before and threw it in the lake. She then was able to get another one. Which was ripped off her neck. She did not ask to wear it again. She has a history of not asking for permission to take it off or to wear it. They have a very off and on relationship. She is given so many chances. My question is what is the protocol for her constantly disrespecting a Dom?
There is no protocol. There is only what she and her (your) Dom agree.
It sounds to me like you are pissed off that she is ‘getting away with shit’ so you are looking for some support to be allowed to feel that way. You don’t need it: You feel what you feel and that’s okay.
I have no idea how your relationship works with the three of you, but however it’s set up, I suggest you talk to them about your feelings so resentment doesn’t fester. The goal there is not to change his or her behaviour, but to provide transparency so that you can all work out how to manage it.
Before you do that, though, I strongly suggest you figure out the root of the problem because it’s not about ‘what they’re doing’ (because that’s not about you), it’s ‘where is this feeling coming from’ in you. Is it that it’s not fair? Do you feel like she doesn’t deserve her place in your poly arrangement? Is it jealousy that she gets chances you aren’t getting? Is it a lack of attention as the ‘good girl’? Dig around a bit.
Best of luck.
Ferns
I’m very much a sub. When i disobey my husband (sir) there usually is a reason. Sometimes its depression or seperation anxiety acting up, he always talks to me about it. If its for a good reason that i disobeyed he will normally just tell me he is sorry and he will fix the problem (which makes me feel terrible he shouldn’t have to feel bad for my behaviour) however on the opposite side of that coin…..i can be disobedient and very bratty when that happens and its for a reason such as i just wanted to push him or because i didnt want to do something (not something reasonable. Ex: he asked me to go to sleep i said I dont want to because i want to watch tv) I would either be grounded from fun time or if its a big rule i disobeyed such as harming myself with reading in the dark without my glasses or leaving my inhaler when i go somewhere or being mean to others or being a bitch for no reason then i would get spanked over his knee until i stop fighting. I HATE physical punishment its never been a reward for me. (This was agreed upon when we first got together as a good punishment)
I obey for the most part but I’m a bit of a brat and I know how much she wants me. I love watching her battle with the Domme side of her that wants to punish me and the side of her that just wants to fuck me stupid. That’s a fun game for me. I’m not aloud to mark her but sometimes I do it just to watch her burn and I like being punished so either way it’s a win win for me.
We struck a situation recently where I marked her and she so badly wanted to leave me as punishment but she couldn’t. Anyone ever struck this?
I am a new Sub and the way my Dom punishes me is he will deny me certain things or start over with his teasing process, hes wanted to try some other public punishment (ie. Vibrator while shopping or out with friends) but its a hard limit i disscussed. He doesnt do any extreme things (even tho i can tell he wants to) im just hopeing i can be a better sub as time passes, i hate to dissapoint. Anyway i hope this helps.
It’s called topping from the bottom and yeah. .
Coug
My dom has been in recovery for 10 years. No smoking and drinking is a requirement that i agreed to. I confessed(without him asking) to smoking the first time and got an asswhooping ill never forget. 2 more times it happened. I didnt lie but i waited until he asked me to tell him. I cant just lie and say no, but i was too afraid to be forthcoming. Hes now furuous with me that he had to even ask. He feels i should have told him immediately, especially as we been on thenphone a LOT the day i did it. Now he ssys he doesnt trust me. I understand why but i dont know how to het iver the fear of telling him if i do it again, and secretly i want to do it and just not tell him, which is so stuoid and and downright defiant. He is worth more than any cigarette or beer. So why do i do this? I love him.
I can’t answer the ‘why do I do this?’ question, but I can say this: Nicotine is an addiction and it’s very hard to just give it up because you want to.
If you only smoke occasionally (ie you aren’t actually addicted), then you need to look at what triggers it (when out drinking, for example, or being around others who smoke) and cut that out.
All in all, this is a very different situation from other kinds of things a dominant might ask of you: You need to tackle the problem of addiction and habits for yourself. It’s really not a matter of ‘doing as you’re told’ with substances like this.
Ask for your dominant’s help with kicking the habit (not order-ey orders, but help). Also discuss with him that consequences (like a beating) are clearly not useful or productive in kicking this behaviour and are just making you afraid to tell him.
IF you are serious about giving it up, then seek help for it (here in Australia, there are free government programs for this. I’ve no idea where you are, but it’s worth looking into).
Also, as you’ve learnt, punishments *don’t change behaviour*. They don’t. You need to tackle this another way.
Ferns
If I understand correctly hypnosis can be helpful for smokers.
Hey I’m new to this Dom Sub culture and I’m eager to learn all there is to know about being a Dominant gay man. Hope to hear from you soon
Hey there Gerardo,
I suggest you pop over to DualDrew’s blog and have a poke around as a start. He’s a gay switch with lots of great content: https://thedrewduality.com/
I have an annotated non-fiction book list here that you should take a look at: https://www.domme-chronicles.com/book-list
Ferns
i sometimes lose cuddles. i don’t see what the problem with me getting away with disobedience would be? can someone explain?
If you’re dominant enjoys it, there is no problem at all :). Go. Have fun :).
Ferns
The thing is he doesn’t let me disobey at all. That is why I was asking.
He is extremely strict
If it works for you both, then great.
If it’s not working for you, if you are unhappy, then have a chat to him about it.
If he doesn’t ‘allow’ you to talk about things that aren’t working for you in the relationship or things that are making you unhappy, then without further context, I’d be leaning towards saying that you are in an unhealthy relationship and it may be worth taking a step back and having a good long look at it and considering whether it’s the kind of relationship you want.
If you are unhappy, and you can’t talk to your partner about it, then there’s nowhere to go from there except into more unhappiness, and that’s no way to live.
Ferns
is it disobedient to plan to ignore your dom if you are in an ldr and get in trouble
You can’t fool me, this is a trick question.
Ferns
Hi so I’m a male submissive that has been in the game for years. It has all been pro Dom so far so building my bdsm relationships have Only been in that way. I am now getting to the point where I know i need a more real relationship. So I starting telling my close friends I’m a findom sub. I find out they are into bdsm too. So I offered to serve my best friend and his wife and they denied me. They end up divorcing a year later because he cheated on her with her friend and was abusive. To get him back she goes out with our other good friend. She also hits me up and offers to take on my submission as a domme. My former best friend is an asshole and we aren’t talking so I say fine let’s try it. So everything is going good but I realize her limits are no sexual contact or talking about anything sexual. She also doesn’t hang out with me And it’s been over a year but we text and I spoil her but she won’t allow me to see her. Her current boyfriend know what’s going on. I sometimes get drunk and text her late night seeking attention. I at times will beg for anytype of sexual contact. No sex. Even just like a sock to worship. Or a picture of her just smiling. She broke things off with me saying I don’t respect her boundaries but she is so closed off from her previous relationship. Keeping in mind I have been spoiling her a lot the whole time. I think she might like rejection fetish and denying attention. We have never talked about what she likes or desires because she says I don’t deserve to know. But how can I make her happy if she won’t talk to me about it. When she broke it off 4 days ago i cried but then the next day she text me and said she is going through a lot and was sorry for being harsh and why I need to listen to her. She said she needs space. I asked if I was still allowed to serve her. No response. She creates emotions in me I’ve never experienced before. Should I text her and apologize and tell her that. Should I wait til she texts me. Or am I just being used to get back at her ex and for my money. I think I love her but she don’t think she feels the same way back. Keep in Mind we known each other for 10 years as really good friends before this and it’s my first real semi bdsm relationship that didn’t have pro domme beginnings. Thanks for reading and any advice you can give
My advice: Get out.
This is clearly an unhealthy relationship where mutual expectations and boundaries have not been defined, where communication is poor, and there seems to have been no effort made to figure out how it’s going to work.
So now you’re in a position where she gets to dump you, change her mind, ignore you, treat you poorly at her whim, and you’re an emotional mess.
Since I’m pretty sure you won’t take my first piece of advice, my second piece is to figure out exactly what you want from this relationship. Then tell her you want to have a chat about what’s happening here, what the relationship actually is, what you would like from it, what she wants from it, and see if you can agree how to make it work for both of you and etc.
THEN you can decide if what’s actually on the table is going to make you happy.
Ferns
Thank you so much for your advice. If she comes back I’ll be sure to let her know and see if we can figure it out. if not less drama over all but man the different feelings and emotions have been a roller coaster. I don’t know if it’s good or not lol but healthy is the key word in this. Thanks again
I’m a sub, have been in D/s dynamics for over a decade. My Dom has a rule that I address him when I need him and he’s out of town. Also, he has promised that he won’t just up and vanish or disappear on me. If for some reason he is silent, he’ll let me know ahead of time why, how long, and when to expect him back. I’ve agreed to all of this and mostly he sticks to those promises and let’s me know. I thank him for letting me know, which he always appreciates. He neglected to tell me he would be gone for 12 days and mostly out of touch. When I addressed him how he has asked, he told me he wouldn’t be available until January 4th. My birthday is January 2nd and last year he forgot my birthday. So I was hurt that he didn’t think enough of me or find it important to tell me he would be gone. When I responded in a confused and hurt way, he didn’t apologize for not telling me or not communicating. Instead, when I asked if he and I are ok, he said “If you don’t follow your rules it won’t be.” —I immediately shut down, stopped texting, and just sat in silence. He didn’t tell me goodnight or anything else. Just the threat of it not being ok if I don’t follow my rules. I felt unimportant and shamed, like a scalded dog. I didn’t like that feeling. And majority, over majority of the time I obey my rules he’s given me with no fuss or push back. No willful disobedience. He’s told me he’s proud of me and that I am obedient and a good girl. This was just cold, neglectful (in communication on his part), and non reassuring. So I’m not sure how to take it or feel about it—I’m mad, sad, hurt, embarrassed, and confused.
Normally he’s very good about telling me changes in schedule. He knows I have anxiety, of which I take medicine for and attend therapy (which he is in full support of, as he also attends therapy and is an advocate for mental health).
Oh Rylie, this sounds awful, I’m sorry you’re going through it.
You say you ‘have been in D/s dynamics for over a decade’, but I have to assume you don’t mean THIS dynamic with THIS dominant, which means you have a basis for comparison, no? Because what you’re describing is an issue that shouldn’t be coming up if you have a healthy, functioning relationship.
1. Your feelings are valid
2. Your dom has broken your trust
3. Your dom has taken no responsibility for the above
4. Your dom shut you down when you wanted some clarity and reassurance
Any situation where a dominant breaks their part of your agreement, and then you reach out to clarify and get reassurance and the dom then THREATENS the health of the relationship to shut you up, is bullshit.
I obviously have no idea what kind of relationship you have where ‘going away for 12 days without saying anything’ is even a possibility, but it’s clear it’s not a romantic primary relationship because then this wouldn’t happen. I’m guessing solely a D/s arrangement?
If you want my advice (given I don’t know him at all, take this with a grain of salt), when you see him next ask to have a relationship chat with him and tell him how all of this made you feel. Ask him to recommit to this part of your agreement (which was NOT onerous AT ALL, JFC). His reaction to you doing this will tell you A LOT.
I’m not sure how hard you want to go on this, but honestly, a relationship (ANY relationship, but especially D/s) is based on trust, and if you can’t trust your dominant to keep his word on his agreements with you, and if he doubles down on that by not apologising and not addressing that situation that caused you distress, then I’d be questioning what level of concern he has for you overall.
I wish you the best of luck with it. And happy early birthday!
Ferns
I’ve been very bad and he wants to punish me severely 500+ spankings and rape. I already shake when he’s around. What is your advice?!?
Some questions for you:
– Is the shaking a good thing?
– Is this kind of punishment within your negotiated and agreed dynamic?
– Is he planning to do this only with your full informed consent (including CNC force play)?
– Can you opt out of this punishment if you don’t feel safe?
– Do you trust that he can do this without causing you harm?
– Do you trust him to keep you safe during and afterwards?
– Does this relationship make you feel safe emotionally and physically?
If the answer to ALL of these is ‘yes’, then great: Go on with your good selves.
If the answer to ANY OF THOSE is ‘no’, then you need to nope out in whatever way you can.
If you have a healthy relationship then saying ‘I don’t consent to this, we need to talk about it’ will be sufficient to discuss your concerns. If you don’t feel like you have that option, then you need to get right out of that relationship altogether because any dom who refuses to discuss your genuine concerns does not have your best interests at heart (and that ‘punishment’ does sound concerning on the face of it, and the fact that you are asking this question here also makes me concerned).
Ferns
My submissive refuses to do any sort of training which related directly to agreed upon activities within our contract. She gets irritated when i even bring uo training. Resukts in, “am i not good enough? I thought i did a good job”. Well its preferential training particular to me, her Dom. We have been married for 12 years and have 3 chikdren together and were new to this. She got turned onto it by romance novels. We are in a ddlg relationship, she is the little girl and i am her Daddy. What do i do about this? She will not even hear abouttraining, and doesnt like it when i send her articles to read. For example, articles on blowjob techniques, hand job techniques, the techniques i am specifically fond of. Most importantly, i need her to desensitize her gag reflex and train for Deepthroating me. But she will not, and when i give commands to her to perform these activities, i am always weary about even giving the command in the first place. Its almost like she doesnt know what this is about and what true submission is.
Or do i just have a false expectation? Becuase ive literally read every single article on all of this, including yours,”when your sub says no” and cant find anything specific enough to my problem, which is why i am asking you directly. Based on everything I have researched, expecting what i expect is not out of the ordinary for a d/s relationship. Idk why she wont, i have talked to her, we have revised our contract like 10 times and those activities she refuses to train on and doesnt even like talking about very much, are still in the contract as acceptable activities.
Have you read my very practical step-by-step guide: How to handle disobedience?
Seriously, I recommend it because these issues aren’t simple and my blog post is the high level crib notes, that’s all.
The guide gives you a whole bunch of foundational information on setting up (or resetting) your dynamic, what you have to think about to make it strong and workable, and a process to deal with disobedience in a way that works.
But I’m going to say this also: Built into all of it, and what I include clearly in the guide, is the simple fact that your sub has to want to submit. You can’t ‘make’ someone submit if they don’t want to (nor should you, you start to veer into abuse territory if you try).
It sounds to me like you’re trying to tackle the symptom (she won’t do what you want) and not the cause (your foundational dynamic isn’t solid).
So yeah, get the book.
Ferns
Well im not trying ti force her to do anything she doesnt want to. As i said before, it is training that relates to stuff that is acceptable and agreed upon within the contract. Training isnt in the contract, but the things the training is for, are. My question for you is how to go about presenting her with a training plan in a way where she wont think shes not good enough the way she is or something like that. She is great, and me wanting ti train her is not telling yer shes not, but she sees it that way i guess. The fact is though, that everyone has preferences and the only way for another person to know how to please a specific person’s preferences is through a Dom specific preferential training program. How should i go about this in that way? Where she doesnt think shes not good enough?
Ferns, there’s some techno black magic thingy that won’t let me post on a certain thread, probably electrodemons or capacitors or some such new fangledness, anyway. Just wanted to let you know, nice to see you are posting again, and people are thinking about you.
Coug