I really want to do a bunch of ‘How to’ posts to cover ‘hints and tips for newbies’ because I see these kinds of questions all the time from both potential submissives and from potential dominants. They’re great questions that many people struggle with in one way or another.
Hello. when answering questions you often say to new Dom’s not take the airy fairy stuff like ‘I want to fulfil all your fantasies’ and ask their partners for more details. But what if a sub really gets turned on by the idea of being used instead of any particular acts. How does he explain himself then?
Hello there,
This is such a good question.
There are a lot of people who are trying to navigate kink with their vanilla partners or newbies, and it’s NOT easy. There is no ‘right way’ to approach it. There is really only ‘what works and what doesn’t’ and that’s so very individual that it’s hard to generalise. But having seen a LOT of angst from both the partner who wants to raise it and the partner to whom it’s been raised, I have a pretty good idea by now of what *won’t* work for most people.
And the very first thing that is pretty much guaranteed NOT to work is *not communicating expectations*.
I DO understand that submissive desire to ‘fulfil fantasies’ or to ‘be used’ or even to ‘be dominated’ in a general sense but even as an experienced dominant, my first question of someone who says that is ‘what do you mean by that?’ Because honestly, it could mean ANYTHING.
I know that there are submissives whose primary objective is to do what makes their dominant happy, but you know what? For that desire to be fulfilling, the level of compatibility between them and their partner has to be high (and in that I don’t mean ‘she has to like the things he likes’, I mean ‘she has to be dominant in a way that makes him feel fulfilled’). There are some submissives whose submission is genuinely driven by making their partner happy, and when they are compatible, this works a treat. A lot of people don’t believe this can be true: I know it is, BUT until you know each other really well to establish that you have that compatibility, it’s a nonsense.
The majority of men who say ‘I want to be used’ or ‘I want to fulfil your fantasies’ DO NOT for one second mean that literally. The idea of it comes with a bunch of assumptions about what that looks like: how they don’t realise this is baffling to me.
If the woman says “Awesome, I want you to clean the house while I have a glass of wine, watch some porn, and masturbate” and that’s it for her, THAT’S HER ONLY FANTASY, then he is indeed ‘being used’ AND ‘fulfilling her fantasy’. Jackpot, right?! And you know what? I’m pretty damn sure that when he’s cleaning the house for the tenth time, he’s going to go ‘THIS SUCKS!’ because that’s totally not how he imagined it would be.
When a new dominant hears ‘I want to be used’, her first instinct is to think “I have no idea what you mean by that”. An experienced dominant will think the same, but will have the confidence to SAY SO OUT LOUD. A new dominant (or a vanilla woman) who is approached with this will probably be confused and rightly so. She is essentially being told “I want something and I’m not going to tell you what it is, so off you go…” THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF A POWERFUL POSITION FOR HER.
Let’s say that she then very sensibly sits down and works out what it is she actually wants from him. This is really hard to do because this is new for her, she has no frame of reference, no information, no sense of ‘what it means’ and in the forefront of her mind is the question *how do I please him?* because after all, he ASKED for this and no matter how you look at it, she’s doing it for him. So she’s in a headspace of thinking “he has asked me for something and I am trying to give him that, even though I have no idea what ‘that’ is.” Ugh.
So she does her best, reads, researches, looks at a bunch of porn or something, I don’t even know, and comes up with *something she thinks he will like*. Do you see what is happening there? She is essentially playing a guessing game to please him. THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF A POWERFUL POSITION FOR HER.
What is likely to happen, and what I have seen happening over and over again, is that she will then try to do something with that without any further information from him. She will take some tentative steps to enact what she is guessing he will like, and in her mind will be this fear that she is getting it wrong, that he won’t like it, that she doesn’t understand, that he won’t like HER any more… all of that. Again, THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF A POWERFUL POSITION FOR HER.
And you know what happens in the majority of these scenarios? Her tentative floundering *doesn’t work for him*. So then he starts to give her ‘helpful guidance’, to ‘direct’ her to behave in a way that he imagined, to do things that he wanted, to give him what he refused to articulate.
So now she feels like a failure (because she was obviously ‘doin’ it wrong’), he is frustrated (because it doesn’t feel how he wanted it to feel) and both of them end up resentful and unhappy about how it’s going.
It’s a recipe for failure.
So when a man says he wants to “be used” or to “fulfil her fantasies” or to “be dominated”, it is disingenuous for him to say “and I don’t care what that looks like”. He DOES care, but, selfishly, he thinks it will ‘spoil everything’ if he tells her. Because then she’s just doing it for him. But you know what? SHE’S JUST DOING IT FOR HIM ANYWAY!
And the only way for the relationship to progress past the ‘doing it for him’ bit is for her to find her feet and to do that, she needs to get pleasure from it, to LIKE how it feels, to feel confident and fierce and comfortable, and the starting point for building that is for her to come at it from a position of power. And giving her as much information as possible is arming her with a starting power base upon which to build.
TL;DR: To your actual question *smile*:
“… what if a sub really gets turned on by the idea of being used instead of any particular acts. How does he explain himself then?”
The ‘idea of being used’ has a form, a function, a ‘way of working’, and he needs to find the words to explain to her *what that looks like to him, what it feels like, what it MEANS* so that she has a really solid place to start from.
So whether his version of ‘being used’ is “I want you to tell me to do chores and for there to be consequences if I don’t” or “I would like our sex to be all about what YOU want and here’s what that looks like to me” or “I would like to feel as if I am a tool for your use and these are the things that make me feel that way” or *something else*, he needs to tell her or he is asking her to ‘be dominant’ and then putting her in a position where she has NO POWER to enact it. And that shit is going nowhere good.
Ferns
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14 comments
In my opinion, a man shouldn’t “forget” to mention his kinky side BEFORE approaching any woman. It’s almost impossible for a woman to enjoy being dominant if it’s not her desire to be so, she’ll always be the one who gives in that relationship, her only satisfaction is making her man happy but then he’s not happy at all because she’s not actually being dominant. Unless the point is having a vanilla girl to fulfill his fantasies, a truly submissive man must be honest from a start.
“In my opinion, a man shouldn’t “forget” to mention his kinky side BEFORE approaching any woman.”
Well to be fair he has to approach her BEFORE he can mention it… heh.
Seriously though, I do agree that earlier is better, but the ‘when’ is a judgement call. Leading with it right off the bat makes you sound weird, like a vanilla person blurting out “I LIKE ANAL SEX” before you’ve taken a sip of your first drink.
But even if he does it early, this same challenging discussion STILL has to happen.
I also think there is a generation of men who discover their submission later in life, and they often find themselves in vanilla marriages with a woman they love and face this challenge.
So yeah, sometimes it’s not the ideal situation.
“It’s almost impossible for a woman to enjoy being dominant if it’s not her desire to be so”
I agree that you can’t make someone into something they’re not, BUT I know of some very happy relationships where the woman was ‘introduced to her dominance’ by her submissive partner.
I think there are various reasons why it CAN work; latent dominance, a function of their particular relationship, she just finds it fun, or even her desire to please (though not ‘dominance’ perhaps) can often take them a fair way down that road.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Ferns
Very nicely put, Ferns!
And I do not think I have seen this discussed this way before, so this is a great resource to have available.
I look forward to future “How To” posts from you!
Cheers!
Thanks Greg *smile*.
I’m not sure I’ve seen the question asked quite so directly before actually, but I’ve seen a lot that bounce around the crux of it.
Hoping the asker doesn’t feel too hammered (sorry, dear asker: it really is a great question!).
Ferns
Totally agree.
I often spend a considerable amount of time at the front end of new relationships with new prospective partners learning what turns them on, how their desire works. This can happen in the context of explicit conversations; it can happen in bed; it can happen via questionnaires. There are dozens of ways. But if I had a nickel for every time I tried to “use” someone, only to be rejected because my “use” wasn’t what she had in mind… I’d have a lot of nickels.
I try to avoid that situation nowadays. Not always successfully.
Yep. I’m the same, I want to know everything, always. Knowledge is power and all that.
“…if I had a nickel for every time I tried to “use” someone, only to be rejected because my “use” wasn’t what she had in mind… I’d have a lot of nickels.
Yes, you wouldn’t be the lone ranger there.
Ferns
This is in response to the discussion about “wanting to be used.” As a submissive man who has had the belief that I woudl do anything that would please Her or that i want to be used in “any” way she wishies, i agree with much of what You have written.
Yes, it is hard to believe that men don’t get what You have said about the need to be more detailed and of course cleaning the house for the 10 time would not be so nice.
So, here is what i think we are saying…. and even this has some limits… but in general… we want to be use in a way that satisfies You sexually… that creates the situation whereby You are having an orgasm, or an amaxing sexual feeling, from having used us…. that i believe is the crux and then within that, so much is possible. Indeed, an understanding Dominant could get the house cleaned and watch porn and have a slave who was willing and wanting to do again if there was also the belief that her watching him clean made her hot and wet and ultimately made her want to use him in untold ways.
Thank You for listening.
“…in general… we want to be use in a way that satisfies You sexually… that creates the situation whereby You are having an orgasm, or an amaxing sexual feeling, from having used us…”
Ahh, Jonathan, you make the mistake of thinking that there is a ‘we’ here, and that all submissive men are somehow the same and therefore we can guess what they want. They aren’t. And we can’t. Trust me on this.
The likelihood of what she wants and what he wants not matching up is high. And it can be avoided.
It seems you know what you want and that’s great. You can use your words with a potential partner, and that will make a big difference.
Thanks for your comment.
Ferns
OMG! Thanks a lot for your response. This question has confused me for a long time but it makes sense now. when you say “THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF A POWERFUL POSITION FOR HER.” I can understand that completely.
Though I think it will take me some time to get used to the idea that “SHE’S JUST DOING IT FOR HIM ANYWAY!” at one level it seems to stand against everything I have thought submission is about. but .. idk … it also makes me feel unbelievably vulnerable and grateful (which makes me want to submit even more). i am going to have to figure out the last bit i guess.
thankyou so much for your response.
what would dumb submissive men of this world do if not for you.
You’re so welcome. I’m glad you found it useful.
But I do want to clarify something:
“Though I think it will take me some time to get used to the idea that “SHE’S JUST DOING IT FOR HIM ANYWAY!” at one level it seems to stand against everything I have thought submission is about”
Please don’t misunderstand me when I say that. I’m not talking about D/s in general: I’m being very specific with the circumstances here.
In this post I’m talking about a submissive man who is introducing an inexperienced woman into this, perhaps a vanilla woman. And the *starting* point for that situation IS that she is exploring it *because he asked her to*, so yes, she is doing it for him.
And I added a bit about what it’s likely to take for her to get PAST the ‘doing it for him’ stage (see the paragraph just before TL;DR).
So yeah, I’m not talking about self identified dominant women who are into D/s because that’s their thing: They are doing it for themselves and for their own reasons.
Ferns
Great question and I love the trail of answers. First of all, your blog is great. You do a great service in hosting such an informative and steamy forum. I am fascinated by this whole world of sexual exploration. I am very afraid of it as well. That being said, communicating needs and wants up front is critical and easier said than done. Thank you. New Lover in Boston.
Thanks for the positive feedback.
And I totally agree that it’s ALWAYS ‘easier said than done’. If it was easy, nobody would ever have these issues…. ahhh… if only *wistful sigh*.
Ferns
Fern I have been seeing a mistress for a couple years. I pay her for her time but I don’t know what to do. She makes me massage her and she makes me smell her very stinky feet but the only thing is I can’t get enough of the smell it makes me so hard. I love it when she makes me pleasure her orally cause I have to drink her cum it tastes very good.
I’m not sure I see a problem here. You go to a pro-Domme who seems to do things with you that you enjoy. So, keep doing that!
Ferns